What's in this session?
- How can we, content creators, use our social media platforms to reach those who do not know Jesus yet? And what are your ideas on how we can better market to those people? (1:00)
- I want to start putting everything we’ve ever put on Vimeo and over to Youtube. Is it worth the time and effort? (8:30)
- If a church posts too often, isn’t there a chance people will get tired of it and start ignoring it? Or are you going to say there’s no such thing as too often? (15:02)
- Is it okay to totally overhaul the logos and artwork that organizations have previously generated to create our own look? Is there any infringement of copyright here? (21:02)
Show notes and resources
- The Ultimate YouTube Growth Strategy For Churches | Ep. #019
- The 3-Minute Instagram Comment Strategy That Really Works For Churches | Ep. #034
- The 3X Instagram Strategy For Churches In 2018 | Ep. #016
- Celebrate Recovery
- Pro Video Announcements
- Brady Shearer on Instagram
- Pro Church Tools on Facebook
- The #AskBrady Show on YouTube
- Pro Church Tools on YouTube
- Brady Shearer on Twitter
- Pro Church Podcast on Apple Podcast
- Elevation Church
- Hillsong Church
Free Bonus: Click here to download The Perfect Church Homepage Infographic – a complete visual breakdown of the essential elements that every church website homepage needs
Brady: Today on the Ask Brady show, we answer the question, can you post too much on social media? [crosstalk 00:00:46] Well, hey there, and welcome to the #AskBrady Show, episode number 53. We’ve got four great questions from the people of Pro Church Nation, and I’m joined as always, to my left, your right, it is Roxanne.
Roxanne: It’s true.
Brady: True it is. Behind the camera, the editing wizard himself, Jo Dex!
Jo Dex: [inaudible 00:00:44]
Brady: [crosstalk 00:00:46] [inaudible 00:00:46] And the man with the cam, Alex Mills.
Alex: Thanks. It’s not really as special as it sounds because I work here, but I’m here.
Brady: Roxanne, take us away with the first question.
Roxanne: Alright. First question comes from Taylor and he sent in a video.
Taylor: Brady, this is Taylor from [inaudible 00:01:01], Indiana again and I have another question for you guys.
With the church, we are so caught up in church. We are caught up in our Sunday morning playlist. What we should play when people walk in, our lights, our kids’ ministry and our sermons, and our sermon bumpers and … All these things are good, and … But to a point, we get distracted by those things. Eventually, we need to remember that we are called just to make disciples and not just to grow our own churches. For us content creators, what ideas do you have to make content specifically for the lost? How can we use our social media platforms to reach those who do not know Jesus yet? And what are your ideas on how we can better market to those people? Thanks.
Brady: Thanks for the question, Taylor. I think it’s an important question that’s worth considering. I have … We have done a number of episodes of Pro Church Daily where we detailed in depth a number of different strategies that churches can use on social media, online, digitally, to accomplish exactly what you were hitting on here.
The trade off with each of these is that yes, you’re particularly going out of your way to disciple people. To reach people in ways that most churches, if not almost every church, isn’t considering. The trade off is that it won’t likely directly lead to more giving or more butts in seats at your church. And that’s why most churches don’t do a dive into this. I’m not here to blame them. I’m not here to say anything bad about that. We’ve got to set the goals that we have and then we go after them and anything that doesn’t help us reach those goals maybe isn’t worth doing.
That being said, there are three distinct strategies that I would like to do a brief overview of. We have done, I think, individual episodes for each of these, on Pro Church Daily, if you want to do a deeper dive.
The first is the ultimate YouTube growth strategy for churches. You find a key word that people are searching for on Google. For example, Bible translations. You create a video, answering a question that a user would be asking pertaining to that keyword. YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world, so if someone’s searching for the key word “Bible translations,” they’re likely searching something along the lines of hey, what Bible translation should I be reading? What’s the best one for a Christian? What’s the best one for a non-Christian? You could create a video, title it “The Best Bible Translation for Christians in 2018.” “The Best Bible Translation for Beginners in 2018.”
And that video, if you do it well, if you keep it around four to eight minutes in length, it’s quality, delivers value, likely, due to the search term volume and the search term difficulty for ranking, will rank on the first page. People are going to find that and their going to be helped by your video. They’re going to be connected to the Bible, connected to Scriptures and the hope of Jesus and the story of Jesus, reconciliation, therein.
The trade off, they’re probably not in a five-mile radius of your church building and they probably won’t attend your church and give to your church. But, you can do that, make a new video like that every single week, and you could help tons, thousands upon thousands of people reach Jesus and interact with the hope that Jesus offers each one of us.
The second thing that you could do, we did this strategy on Pro Church Daily this week, the Instagram comment strategy. It takes about three minutes every single day. Follow business professionals in your local area. Follow restaurants in your local area. Follow small businesses in your local area, i.e., the Mexican restaurant on Stanley Ave, the local artisanal craft shop on Main Street, the real estate agent on Queen Street. And every day, take three minutes … Follow 50 to 100 of these counts at the beginning and then take three minutes every day liking and commenting on the posts that show up organically in your feed.
That will, over the course of 12 months, raise your brand awareness, but more importantly, it’s going to show to these restaurant owners, to these real estate agents, to these business professionals, to these small business owners, that there is a church in their community, a local institution, a local religious meeting place that actually cares about being invested in the community. And it’s going to signal to these individuals and to these corporations and organizations that you care. For many, who knows for how many, that will be the first time in a long time that they’ve seen a church that’s going beyond just asking for something, and instead giving something.
Think about … I don’t know about you, Roxanne … You have less followers than me on Instagram but I feel –
Brady: This still … Any time someone likes or comments on an Instagram … It just means so much to me that someone would go out of their way and do that. Especially when someone comments. Even at something simple like an emoji comment and nothing else. When you send me a DM, even though we are close friends that see each other almost every single day, I’m always like, man, Roxanne went out of her way to send me a DM from an Instagram story. That meant a lot.
Roxanne: Yeah. And that means that they watched it. So they actually paid attention.
Roxanne: The other thing I was going to add is by following the other businesses in your area you kind of know what’s happening in your community, which is great because a lot of people come to church and have questions like, “Where can I go to” … I don’t know why that’s an established kind of thing. People go to churches and are like, “Where can I go to find this?”
Brady: It’s a thing because when someone is invested in a community, you expect them to know everything about that community.
We were just in So Cal last week. We would go into a restaurant and they would say, “Hey, here are some recommendations for food in our restaurant” and then we would say, “Hey, we’re thinking about hitting up a microbrewery” or, “We’re thinking about going to a coffee shop” or, “What’s the best beach?” We’re asking them because they are working at an institution that is a cornerstone of that community.
Brady: And people see churches in the same way.
Roxanne: Yeah. So I think that’s just really a great way to … For your church and the people who work there to stay in touch with what’s happening. And you can refer people from your church things, which is also building your community with those businesses as well.
Brady: Those first two strategies are 100% free. One requires more time than the other, the Instagram three minute comment strategy and its name takes about three minutes a day. Consistency, small investments over time … If you invested 25 cents into a piggy bank every day, over the course of a year that would add up to something.
The third strategy would require actual money from you, but could more directly influence people in your local area connected to your church. We talked about this, creating a local events guide. You could create 97 Things to Do in Oceanside, California This Winter. And you could create that 97 Events guide, promote it using Facebook ads, put some money behind it. Everyone in Oceanside is going to find that free guide valuable. If I live in Oceanside, I want to know about the things that are awesome in my community that I may not be aware of yet.
So those are three strategies; Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. One for each unique platform that you can do to help disciple people, to help reach out to the people that are unconnected to church, unchurched, dechurched, exchurched, whatever you want to call it, and help them connect with Jesus. Sure, that might not directly lead to impact when it comes to people attending your church week after week or the giving volume, the bottom line. But it will directly collaborate and work within your mission statement. That’s what we’re all trying to do. Every church’s vision or mission statement is either the Great Commission, or the Greatest Commandment or some combination of the two distilled into a catchy saying.
Do these strategies and you can help accomplish your mission statement.
Roxanne: Perfect. Alright. Question two comes from Julian.
Julian: Hey, Brady and the rest of the team, thanks for what you guys do. It’s really inspirational, inspiring, informative. Thanks so much.
My question for you guys today surrounding my dilemma is this: Before I got to the church, we established a Vimeo account where all the sermons, 300, 400 plus sermons over the last number of years, with also all our creative videos that we do … They’re on Vimeo and they’re embedded from Vimeo onto our website.
Somewhere in the back of my mind knows and wants to either start putting everything on YouTube instead of Vimeo and/or take everything we’ve ever put on Vimeo and transfer it over to YouTube. That’s a daunting task. That’s obviously going to take a lot of time and effort so I’m asking you what to do. Do we … Where do we land in all of that? I’m sure we can change up our website to embed from YouTube, but again, there’s all that other stuff that we need to think about and worry about.
That’s my question. Thanks.
Brady: Thank you for the question, Julian. The Vimeo vs. YouTube debate was something of a fiery one three years ago ish.
Brady: Creatives who work so hard producing the videos of their pastor’s preaching have been hesitant in the past to upload to YouTube because the compression on YouTube is not great. Traditionally hasn’t been great. Whereas, on the other hand, the compression of Vimeo takes your video and makes it look so pretty.
Of course, that makes sense when it comes to the overall aesthetic and the look of your video, but it completely ignores the idea of attention. We talked about attention being the most valuable commodity that your church can possess. YouTube, as mentioned in the first answer episode of #AskBrady, YouTube’s the second largest search engine in the world. And YouTube’s also owned by Google, the largest search engine in the world. The more that your videos are indexed on YouTube, likely to be indexed on Google because those two platforms are run by the same organization.
A couple of different things that you can do. I understand the inclination, the desire to go back through the 300, 400 sermons/videos that you’ve uploaded, start from scratch and redo every single one. I don’t know if Roxanne has any insight into this, but there may have been times in the past where Brady has done something similar with the three- to 400 blog posts or other videos.
Roxanne: Usually, all the time. At least once a year I have to go through every single one.
Brady: I’m very sorry. Once a year we have to do something.
Roxanne: Every single one.
Brady: I have numerous times in the past, and will do this again as the new Pro Church Tools site launches later this year, where we will have to go through our archives, update everything, redo everything. I’ll say something like, “Hey, Roxanne, I know we’ve done 200 interview podcasts without transcripts. Can you transcribe them by hand, with a notebook and pencil?”
Roxanne: “And I want that by two weeks from now.”
Brady: “Can you do that by Friday?” An alternative to this, Julian, would be … And you said this in your question, going forward, leave everything as it is in the past and going forward, begin publishing your videos on YouTube. This would require no time commitment, effort, creative commitment from you up front. And you’d be able to test posting on YouTube and see if it works for you. Of course, it should work for you considerably better in the long term, but every situation is unique and there is some possibility that Vimeo is the right option for you.
The other reason I wouldn’t delete from Vimeo and republish to YouTube is that over the years, those Vimeo links and posts have been indexed by search engines. If you go in and delete them and then republish them, Google doesn’t know that you did that. And now all the organic search … People have been stumbling across your church’s sermons, your church’s videos, that will be lost. You can set up redirects, but not really because it’s not your website. You don’t own Vimeo. You can’t set up a redirect from Vimeo so there’s only so much you can do. I would leave the videos that already exist on Vimeo, and going forward publish exclusively on YouTube.
As a third thing that I would do, I would intermittently, maybe once or twice a week, take what I would call the greatest hits from Vimeo. Cut them up into a new type of video and then publish that on YouTube. You can look into your Vimeo analytics. Look at the sermons that were the most popular. Take the top five or top 10 of the year. Republish them on YouTube as a greatest hit. As a top ten of 2017 message from Grace City Church or whatever your church’s name is, Julian. And that way you could get, using the 80/20 principle, 80% of the good stuff, most popular stuff from that giant catalog of Vimeo into YouTube without having all that crazy time commitment of trying to go through the backlog of 400 plus messages and re-uploading all of them. Retitling, re tagging, new descriptions, the upload bandwidth, thumbnails. You won’t have anything to do for months. Unlike Roxanne, who could do everything by Friday.
Roxanne: Of course.
Brady: That’s my suggestion. Don’t go through everything backward. I understand the inclination. I love everything being in a nice little box and … Thinking that some of my sermons are on Vimeo and some of them are on YouTube would drive me maybe crazy. I have a team of eight that I can use, whether or not it’s a good use of their time, I can use to do my bidding. But in this situation, even if it was me … I try to fight this in myself. I didn’t want to launch Pro Church Daily until the new prochurchtools.com site launched because I was like, we’re going to have a new brand. I don’t want to redo things. And I was like, wait a minute. By the time the prochurchtools.com site is up, we’ll have done maybe six months of Pro Church Daily. Think of all the good that can come from that. Even if the brand is slightly different. And I had to choose attention over creativity in that point.
So don’t go through the backlogs. Start publishing on YouTube going forward. Go into the backlog, search using analytics. Find the top 10 for each year and then intermittently, once a week, republish a greatest hits. Use the 80/20 principle. Best of both worlds.
Roxanne: Yeah. That’s great. Alright. Next question comes from Rach and she says about our Instagram post that we posted, “If a church posts too often, isn’t there a chance people will get tired of it and start ignoring it? Or are you going to say there’s no such thing as too often.”
Brady: We did an episode of Pro Church Daily and it was called “How to 3x Your Church’s Instagram Following in 2018.” And the idea behind that episode was very simple. Post three times as much, as in is you’re posting once a day, post three times a day and you will 3x your engagement and following in 2018.
The reason for this was the Instagram algorithm. If I post three times a day and Roxanne’s the average follower, maybe she only sees one. We got a couple DM’s and emails from churches over the last week that tried this strategy and they showed us their impressions graph from Instagram. And they’re like, okay, on Wednesday … This graph was a Sunday to Saturday graph. On Wednesday is when we began posting three times more than we were before. And you saw this, basically, three times increase in impressions and thus engagement because that’s how the algorithm works.
The question that you’re asking, Rach …
Great name. My sister’s name is Rachel, my only sibling. Shout out. I just became an uncle. She had her first son, Luke, baby Luke, as my daughter likes to say.
Can you post too often? Yes. Absolutely. And there is an intersection that needs to be considered between quality and quantity. And you want to max out the quantity while keeping the quality variable identical. If your quality meter is … Whatever, however you measure that … Post as much as you possibly can while keeping that quality meter the same.
We went to daily content in 2018 with Pro Church Daily. It took me about five years of writing articles, of producing videos, of doing more than 200 interview podcasts to get to the point where I felt like, alright, we can go daily with content and keep the quality high. And we have seen, through going daily, the growth rate of our YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram accounts, email list, page visits increase dramatically. And the feedback we got has been great. If we had done that and Pro Church Daily was trash, it wouldn’t have mattered that we went daily because no one would have watched after the first week excitement has fizzled out.
We have seen sustained growth and it just keeps going up because we’ve managed to keep the quality where we want it to be and increase the quantity. And that’s the intersection. That’s the variable, the equation that you need to work with. How frequent can we post and the quality be awesome?
No one is upset, for the most part, if you’re not crazy, that there’s a new Star Wars movie every single year now. As long as the Star Wars movies are awesome, we will be happy.
Roxanne: That’s true.
Brady: Marvel. How many superhero movies to they put out every single year? Crazy amounts.
Roxanne: Not enough, in my opinion.
Brady: And they make crazy money and everyone likes it. Look at the box office numbers because they’re consistently extremely well received from both critics and the general audience. Compare that to a DC. DC came up with a number of movies last year. Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, what was the other one? Big DC superhero where they all got together and hung out. Justice League.
Roxanne: Justice League.
Brady: People don’t seem to like DC publishing as much as Marvel. Why? Because even if the quantity is similar, even though they produce just as many movies, the quality is not as consistent and not as high. People don’t like that. You can pretty much publish as much …
There really is no limit when it comes to the algorithms and when it comes to people saying, “This is too much good content. You know what, I’ve had enough of this quality content, where every time I watch it, receive it, consume it, I find it valuable.” That’s not a thing. The reason content becomes too much is because people are spammy, they’re over promotional, or their stuff isn’t valuable.
It’s kind of a really nuanced answer, is there a place where you can post too much? No. As long as the quality is high. Of course, every single one of us has a level where we just can’t produce that much more quality and keep the quantity any … It runs out. Certain point, if we want to increase the quantity slider, the quality slider must be pulled down. I’m changing metaphors. Forget the equation. We’re going with sliders on a sound board. Eventually, you just keep sliding the quantity slider up, up, up and the quality slider must be slid down. And you just can’t keep it where you want it to be.
Brady: You want to keep the quality slider at max volume while keeping the quantity slider ever increasing.
I feel like you don’t like this metaphor. This analogy.
Roxanne: I just think it was really funny that you’re like, “Changing metaphor.”
Brady: I’m going to change it again. Dice. You’re rolling the dice … The problem is that a lot of people lack self awareness. We don’t know what’s quality and what’s not. We think, I’ll just keep publishing more, and then the numbers drop because the quality dropped. So you need to be very self aware. Like I said, it’s been five years of us working toward daily content. How many times did we try daily content before we actually went with it?
Roxanne: Yeah. It took us a long time.
Brady: We tried two, three, maybe even four times. Jonas and you, Jonas behind the camera … The editing wizard himself, have been very involved in that. We did vlogs and we put it all together and we had two weeks of content. And then I was like, no. We scrapped it. And I know a lot of the team was frustrated in the past, but it just … The quality slider was starting to go down. It wasn’t sustainable. We weren’t going to make it work. I had to have that self awareness, nix the project, as much as it hurt. I was, “It’s just not going to be worth it.”
Brady: It required self awareness but no. You as an individual, as an organization, will have a limit on how much you can post because you won’t be able to keep up with the quality. But you will hit that limit 99% of the time before you hit the limit of what the algorithm can withstand.
Roxanne: Right. Yep. Okay. Last question comes from Lindy and she’s says, “I am a newer media pastor and trying to wrap my head around some things, one of which is branding of different ministries from other organizations that we have adopted into our church. Things like Celebrate Recovery or DivorceCare are the main ones that come to mind. Both incredible ministries and serve a great purpose for our church, but neither have a true brand or look to what they do. If you Google these names you’ll see a bunch of dated Publisher type images. Also, whatever look has been generated by these ministries doesn’t fit the look and feel my church is headed in.
“We do advertise these things outside of the church. Is it okay to totally overhaul the logos and artwork these organizations have previously generated to create our own look? Is there any infringement of copyright here? What words of wisdom can you offer?”
Brady: Disclaimer: this is not legal advice. Don’t take it as such, Lindy, but I definitely empathize with … The problem that you’re encountering here …
The first product that we’ve ever done here at Pro Church Tools was video announcements. We still do it. It’s kind of a tertiary product that we don’t talk about too much, but we produce video announcements for more than 100 churches every single week. In my lifetime, I have done dozens and dozens and dozens of announcements for both Celebrate Recovery and DivorceCare because they are highly popular ministries in churches. Why? Because they help people. A lot. In my time of doing these announcements, churches have also uploaded graphics with these announcements.
So Lindy’s point … I have seen a number of different logos, a number of different graphics, different colors, different fonts, different icons, and they have not been homogenous. They’ve all been very different.
I did a quick Google search for Celebrate Recovery brand assets and then Celebrate Recovery branding. And then the same for DivorceCare, just replaced the names. I did not find any promotional guides for either. If a church was posting a Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University class, Dave Ramsey will provide you with all the brand assets and all the promotional materials to use. Programs like that want to keep their brand intact. They want their brand to be the same in Grace City Church and Oceanside as it is in Las Vegas, Nevada, as it is in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada. They want, no matter where you’re doing Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University, you see a smiling picture of Davey. That’s what they want.
If they’re not providing you with those promotional brand assets, which based on my Google search and them not showing up, makes me think that they’re not readily available or they’re not being handed out, then that’s definitely a predicament to be in. One thing that I did find in the Google search was, from Celebrate Recovery, a statement about their trademark. Celebrate Recovery, the name, is trademarked.
Brady: In this statement on their website, they talked about, hey, if you’re going to do Celebrate Recovery in your church, there are a few core things that you absolutely need to abide by. You need to have the DNA portion of the curriculum present. And in the Celebrate Recovery DNA portion of their curriculum, they make it very clear that without Jesus, recovery is not possible. They’re like, no, you can’t do Celebrate Recovery under that moniker, with our logo and our name, which is trademarked, by the way, and not include this. This is a nonnegotiable part of using our curriculum. You can’t just pay for it and talk about recovery outside of Jesus.
Brady: You need to include that. They also say, here are some other things you can’t do. You cannot have a Celebrate Recovery online group. Not allowed. You’ve got to meet face-to-face. You also cannot record a Celebrate Recovery group and then upload it later. We couldn’t host a Celebrate Recovery group with the whole team of Pro Church Tools, use their curriculum, and then upload it –
Brady: To our Facebook page for the public to see. There a couple of others. Those are the ones that were interesting [inaudible 00:24:55] to me.
What was most interesting though, was at no point in any of this page that was put together by their legal team, surely, or by legal counsel that was helping them, it doesn’t say you have to use this logo.
If you use Coca Cola’s brand, they will have very detailed guidelines like, you cannot stretch our logo this far. You cannot make it this color. You cannot use the Coca Cola typeset without this logo, something like that. Brands have that. If the brand doesn’t, it either means that they don’t care or that they’re a smaller organization that hasn’t really thought about that part. In that case, what I would do is reach out to them directly and ask the question.
If they’re not providing you with the brand assets, it puts you in a tough position. You’re going to Google images, just downloading an image and using it in your promotional materials, which as we talked about on an episode of Pro Church Daily, could be very dangerous. If it’s trademarked or copyrighted, not by you, you can get in legal trouble for doing that.
They’re putting you in a precarious situation. Reach out to them directly, ask them the question, and if they’re cool with it, I would totally take their name, Celebrate Recovery, DivorceCare, and create it in your own branding. Create it in your own image. Take your colors, your typesets, your iconography and create Celebrate Recover to match your church’s branding. I think that’s a great way of making it work if possible, and if allowable. The only way to know is to reach out to them directly the way it’s got to be done. Again, not legal advice, but if it was me, that’s what I would do. Get it from the source.
That’ll do it for this 53rd episode of the #AskBrady Show. If you want your question answered, the best way to get it answered, like Taylor and Julian did on this episode, is to send in a video question to the email email@example.com. You can also send in a written question to that email or even better at #AskBrady on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or Twitter. If you do send in a video question, we’ll put your video question at the top of the queue, just like Taylor and Julian. They were sent to the top of the queue.
Roxanne: It’s true.
Brady: You want to send it to the top of the queue. It’s true. That’ll do it for this episode of Pro Church Daily, no, the #AskBrady Show. I’m falling apart. I like the #AskBrady Show because it’s just a little bit more loose.
Roxanne: It’s true.
Brady: And I can fall apart at the end. If you’re still watching, listening, you are a legend. Seize the 167 and we’ll talk real soon.